#5
TITLE: INTERVIEW WITH BORIS YELTSIN
[ZERKALO RTR PROGRAM, 20:25, DECEMBER 29, 2001]
SOURCE: FEDERAL NEWS SERVICE (http://www.fednews.ru/)
Anchor: Good evening! We congratulate you on the coming New Year and wish you happiness, successes and health! We are presenting you this special and last issue in this year of the Zerkalo program from Barvikha, from the dacha of the first President of Russia Boris Nikolayevich Yeltsin.
Boris Nikolayevich, good evening.
Yeltsin: Good evening, Nikolai Karlovich.
Q: Thank you very much for consenting to give this interview. And the first question, naturally, what is your health now, as very many people are interested in this?
A: I feel well. In this year I feel myself much better. The perception of life has become utterly different: there is no tension every minute, no stress that I used to feel when in the presidency. There is no such sensation now. There is work and there is rest. As to the minute-by-minute stress, there is none.
I traveled, as you know, because this, incidentally, made much noise, to Berlin upon the advice of our specialists and the surgeon Renat Akchurin who operated on my heart. I flew to Germany on their advice and tried to get the specialists there to give me a second opinion on the state of my health upon the passage of five years after the operation, after five years of life. They checked everything, including the bypasses and said: "Zehr gut!" So, on their behalf I would like to repeat that everything is very good, everything is in order.
Q: Magnificent! Boris Nikolayevich, let us turn to history. Now it is the eve of the New Year, and there are very important historic dates in which you directly participated. For instance, in these days ten years ago the Soviet Union ceased to exist. An independent Russia was born in the process. And it is an open secret to you that many people, including experts and ordinary people associate this undoing of the Soviet Union with your name and believe that, were it not for Yeltsin, the Soviet Union would have existed for a long time to come. What do you think of this?
A: It looks as if some people either have a short memory and are forgetting about that time and the events that occurred then. Let us recall the developments in Tbilisi, the Tbilisi tragedy with the sapper spades. Let us recall the Baltic events, when the special troops were trying to conquer the TV tower. And let us, finally, recall the Union Treaty, discussed for a long time, with Gorbachev refusing to consent to the variant proposed to him concerning the tax system -- and this divergence was not overcome. Let us recall the putsch of August 19, 1991. It was after the putsch that the republics began, one after another, to declare their independence.
Russia also declared its independence. This was approved by the Supreme Soviet, and you know and remember that there was the Declaration on the Independence of Russia. So, the entire course of history was leading to a point when the regime, the political regime in the country had to be changed. It demonstrated that the Union was not as strong as this was loudly preached by mass media and the propaganda in general. The republics wished to become independent. This must only be welcomed. They are independent, but they did not go their separate ways. They are CIS members, they are operating within the Commonwealth, and they have friendly relations with Russia. We have good peaceful relations and there were no military clashes. None of these countries had revolutions with bloody casualties and there was no civil war in any of the republics.
So, regarding my role or my guilt, I cannot agree with this. It is just that history came very close to this. Russia had to chance and it did change.
Q: There is also another historic date, a very close one. Two years ago, on December 31, 1999, you resigned from Russia's presidency. Do you have any regrets about this now?
A: Not in the least. Moreover, since that time I am becoming increasingly convinced that I then took a correct decision.
Q: When you were resigning, Boris Nikolayevich, you went on television and asked to be forgiven for the mistakes you made during the presidency, and you also spoke about your guilt in the book that you wrote, and in your memoirs. So, what are you now thinking about your guilt, and about the mistakes you made during you incumbency? Do you still have this feeling of guilt?
A: Yes, I do. I was not justified in all my decisions. Some of the decisions had to be taken for the first time. And this could not be without mistakes. But the mistakes were not strategic, they were tactical. There were no strategic mistakes that could affect Russia's history and it further development. No, there were no such mistakes. Tactical errors were made in some less significant options, problems and so on. But, on the whole, Russia embarked on a correct path and it changed.
Q: When resigning, what did you think about the reversibility or irreversibility of the reforms that had taken place in Russia under Yeltsin and what are you thinking about this now?
A: If I had doubts that the reforms might be reversed, I would not have resigned. This is one thing. Secondly, the policy of countries is not decided only by presidents, heads of state, the government or the officials. The policy is decided by the people. The people accepted the reforms. The people agreed that it would be hard during the first years, but then later it would be easier and life would improve. I agree that this is the main thing. And I am positive of that, and here I again believe in this belief (sic!), playing on the word "belief".
It is this belief that is incentivizing and stimulating President Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin to lead the nation down the correct path.
Q: About President Putin. Do you essentially regard him as your successor?
A: I don't like this word. Yes, I chose his candidacy after a long pondering and analyzes. I was convinced that, being an honest, pure, democratic man of moral rectitude, he would lead the country along the charted road further and will further solidify the democratic gains. I am positive and convinced that this belief has increased during these two years.
Q: Now let us take the individual aspects. Say, there is this course, and few would doubt the authorship of the course, Putin's authorship -- Russia's course of rapprochement with the West, the rapprochement with the United States. What is your assessment of it?
A: The course had existed and we had been getting closer together. We signed the START-1 and START-2 agreements on significant cuts in strategic arms. I became friendly with heads of state, and I had excellent relations with Clinton, Jiang Zemin, Jacques Chirac, Hashimoto and others. We were friends. We understood each other well. It was at that time that Russia became a member of the Eight, i.e. one of the eight states which are the strongest, the most solid in the world both in terms of political stability and in economic terms.
That is why now things are getting along even better. Under Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin the rapprochement became even stronger. I am heartened by this and I welcome this. I spoke out about this and I told this to Vladimir Putin. This is the correct path -- without severing out relations with China and the East, -- to be friendly with the West so as finally dispel the least frictions lingering after the Cold War and to trust each other. Finally, many have been able to see things clearly after September 11 and they know where the main threat lies. The main threat does not emanate from Russia, from an empire of evil, as it used to be called. No, the main threat is posed by world terrorism. A concerted struggle is being waged against it. I am, of course, very much concerned over the way it is being waged, lest Russia be drawn into real war, including in Afghanistan, which should be prevented. And Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin is pursuing this line with the support of the whole people.
Q: When you disagree on something with Putin, do you tell him about this or you do not consider it correct?
A: We meet about once a month. We carry out frank conversations one on one. In order to be a worthy interlocutor, I have to have a good mastery of the domestic information -- and I am thankful to them for supplying me with it -- and international information; I am following all the developments, feeling with them and I frankly tell Vladimir Vladimirovich my opinion. Our views do not always coincide, which is natural: a new leader, a new thinking. Of course, some of his views may be different -- and I respect this.
Q: Do you have disputes with him? Do you argue on occasion?
A: No, you cannot call it a dispute, it is a discussion, a conversation. He tells me about his trips, about domestic issues. And I sort of comment them, offering my vision. So, a conversation proceeds in this way. Disputes never arise. We may have disagreements on cadres issues, on appointments, dismissals or other problems. I believe this is my responsibility as the first president, my conscience; I must tell him about it and I tell him.
Q: Boris Nikolayevich, on December 12 you attended the festivities to mark the Constitution Day, and one could see that you talked to Putin. Where do you usually meet with him? This is one part of the question. And now the second. There appears the sensation that of late you have been somewhat closed for the press.
A: (Laughing). Well, firstly, I am talking to you today -- do you call this being closed?
Q: No, this is not being closed.
A: I am answering any of your questions. Any, I stress it. So, ask me any questions and I will answer them directly and honestly -- and this is not being closed. It is a different thing that I would not wish to play the part of a public politician. This is not only unnecessary, it is also harmful. It is natural to comment every event, every action and every decision of the President and the government, as this is done by politicians in our open press, but not for me. No.
I meet with Vladimir Vladimirovich rarer in the Kremlin, although I come to the Kremlin 3-4 times a year. For instance, I will attend the New Year reception there on December 29. But mainly the President himself comes here and we talk here.
Q: Now about mass media, Boris Nikolayevich. In the years of your presidency, the freedom of mass media, the freedom of the press was practically unlimited. And you suffered from this freedom very much sometimes. Do you have any regrets that this was so?
A: No, I believe that this is one of the principal gains of democratic Russia and of the ten years period of presidency; a free press is one of the main gains. I mean the state channels but also the public and private and open TV channels, and newspapers which can print and the TV can present any opinion, sometimes expressed in letters or by politicians -- it is an important gain. And here, of course, one can only take pride in that.
Of course, my family was greatly harmed, and not only myself was criticized, but Naina and my daughters -- Lena and Tatyana came under criticism, some compromising material was looked for, of course, nothing was found because there is nothing and can be nothing. Nevertheless, such issues were discussed over and over again.
I feel no offense. I did not respond to those remarks and criticism from the press and from the media in general, and I respond even less to such things now. Now I take such things to heart even less. Although now things also happen, they would recall something and, now and then, they would make ungentle references but I take no offense.
Q: Incidentally, about your family, Boris Nikolayevich. What was your attitude to the marriage of your daughter Tatyana? She married Valentin Yumashev.
A: I have always appreciated the independence of my daughters. I love them and I have confidence in them. If she fell in love, this means it is her choice. I was surprised but I welcomed it.
Q: Did you learn about this from her?
A: From her, she told me.
Q: How are your family faring now?
A: Everything is normal. It is a big family of thirteen. They all come here. On Sunday, as a rule, we get all together either for lunch or for dinner. All regard this place as their own, and so they never bypass it.
Well, it is natural with daughters. The senior grandchildren -- Boris, Katya, Masha -- are students. They study well. I am pleased with them. The smaller grandchildren -- Gleb, Vanya, the great grandchild Sanya -- the son of Katya, the granddaughter -- are also growing. They are all growing and make me glad.
Q: Now back to the media, Boris Nikolayevich, do you watch the TV now?
A: Yes, I watch the RTR, the ORT, the NTV, the NTV-plus, the sport, the Eurosport, the TV-6 which, incidentally employs gifted journalists like your channel and I would very much hate to see the channel disintegrate. This must not be allowed to happen. They may sometimes behave as if they have muddled brains, but this is of a "local character" and it passes away. There is nothing to be afraid of. The channel must live and work. I watch the TV a lot. I never miss any latest news.
Q: Do you also watch some sensational things? Did you watch the Za Steklom project by any chance?
A: Such things are not for me. I did not watch it and I don't, to be honest with you.
Q: Boris Nikolayevich, tell me the following: some day encyclopedias and history books will surely be written about the role of historic figures, with brief formulations. In your opinion, what will, according to such a description, be written briefly about what President Yeltsin has done and, mainly, about what President Putin has done during the two years of his presidency so far?
A: Not a simple question, Nikolai Karlovich. I already said that the political system has changed -- and this is the principal problem that was being decided during the decade. The one single communist party -- "the intellect, the honor and the conscience" became defunct, a multi-party system was introduced, about which I spoke at the Politburo back in 1987. I was incredibly tortured for this at that time. But then it came about and the country is living normally. Although it must be said that a multi-party system presupposes different ways of thinking, different views of the different parties, but nevertheless they live in one society and they interact in one parliament. This is good, this is normal. The country has become free.
There was the Stalin-type stability, based on fear, and there was the Brezhnevian stability, based on stagnation in everything. Now there is political and economic stability; there has been the transition to market relations, which was an exceptional step for Russia, the first step of the Gaidar government. Why did such a young government come into being at that time? The fact is that more senior officials would never have agreed to the market system, so there would not have been any market relations or a market economy. It was only under my pressure, of course, but the Gaidar government decided to take this road and let the prices float.
Now let us recall, because, maybe, the young people no longer remember it or do not know that there were empty stores with yellow paper for shop windows and long lines of people waiting to buy salt, milk and butter. This was the absence of everything a man needs to live. Contacts with people became regular and electronic media would frequently report the good response from the Russians to the President's direct link with the people. I can only welcome that.
I have already said that there appeared a closer link with the West, with the Western leaders -- another gain scored by Vladimir Vladimirovich. He is now a full-fledged leader, a statesman. It is not for nothing that he is being respected in this country, in the world, and by me.
Q: Not as the office, but rather as a measure of domestic responsibility, do you think the Russian presidency is a life-long responsibility?
A: Yes, without a doubt. I feel this responsibility every day. That is why I behave myself in a balanced fashion. I try not to make statements in a spirit capable of affecting the situation in a negative way. This is inadmissible. And there are no such examples. And as to the responsibility of the first president, it exists and it will remain.
Q: To be frank, during the two years since your resignation, hasn't it been dull?
A: No. I read a lot, I analyze, I familiarize myself with information. I already said that I meet many people. Recently I had meetings with Anatoly Chubais, some presidents, governors, with Shaimiyev, with Chub -- and these are only the recent meetings; I also meet with the oil magnates to get the feel of how they live and how they intend to act if the oil prices in the world drop, and probably the gas prices as well. Those are interesting conversations. As always, such meetings are frank and friendly and we drink tea.
Incidentally, I am prepared to meet with the main media leaders, if they so wish.
Q: I think they would like to.
A: I am ready.
Q: How do you intend to usher in the New Year, Boris Nikolayevich?
A: As always with my family and with a New Year tree. I would play the part of Grandfather Frost, hand out the gifts to all from little Sanechka to Naina, to all of them.
Q: And who is the Snow-Maiden?
A: With us, it is Tanyusha who is always the Snow-Maiden. She is no longer that little Snow-Maiden, but the grownup: the Snow-Maiden is also growing.
Anchor: Boris Nikolayevich, a huge thank you for your frank answers and I take advantage of this opportunity to congratulate you on the coming New Year and wish you a very robust health -- to you and to all your family, and I wish you luck and happiness.
Yeltsin: Thank you, Nikolai Karlovich. I wish to congratulate you, your family, your program and your RTR channel with your successes, with your bold democratic orientation intended for sober-minded people. I would also wish to congratulate all the Russians on this festive occasion. Will it be the Year of the Horse? So, I would wish the Horse never to stumble. Rather I would wish it to carry the load down the correct road and not to miss the right road. I would wish that on the threshold of the New Year there would be warmth, love, comfort, merriment reigning in every family, for if this is so, the whole year will be so. I wish all the Russians peace and health. Thank you.
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