#13
Boris Nemtsov on Putin Economic Policies, Afghan Situation

Trud
16 October 2001
[translation for personal use only]
Interview with Boris Yefimovich Nemtsov, leader of Union of Rightwing Forces, by Yuriy Stroganov, personal correspondent; place and date not given: "Boris Nemtsov: 'There Is No Uniting Force More Powerful Than a Common Enemy'"

Many Russians were disillusioned by the "Yeltsin reform" years. Their hopes were restored when Vladimir Putin, a man evoking unprecedented confidence and support in all segments of the public, became president. The semi-opposition attitudes of the "right wing," the liberals, toward the President seem paradoxical in this context. The Trud correspondent interviewed Boris Nemtsov, one of the leaders of the Union of Rightwing Forces.

[Stroganov] Boris Yefimovich, Putin has been quite consistent in his pursuit of a policy of strengthening the government and revitalizing the economy. A few days ago, your associate Chubays said the country is lucky to have him as its president. Do you agree?

[Nemtsov] I think the President meets Russia's needs.

[Stroganov] What does that mean, "meets Russia's needs"?

[Nemtsov] What is the secret of Putin's popularity? It is more, I am certain, than the fact that the economy is improving, industry is recovering, unemployment is falling, and pensions are growing. He meets Russia's needs, he meets public expectations: This is precisely the kind of president the people need here and now. That is what I mean. In that sense, the choice was predestined.

Putin is an authority figure, and there is colossal support for him.

This does not mean, however, that everyone in the country has to think and say the same things--the same things the President is thinking and saying. It is extremely important to have normal opposition. It is the nature of authority to become lazy and complacent unless it can sense a rival breathing down its neck. Members of the President's team, however, are trying to silence people whose opinions diverge from the official point of view....

[Stroganov] In general, though, do you support the President's current policy?

[Nemtsov] It is now having a much more distinct impact on the economy, I must agree, and Russia has become the most liberal country in Europe as far as taxes are concerned. I still believe, however, that the tax reform has to go further. The judicial reform is finally under way. I am certain that the "third branch of government" will be stronger and less corrupt. Land relations were the topic of discussion for many years, and now a Land Code is being adopted. The crucial issue of labor relations is being resolved: The Labor Code was approved on its first reading. It will establish some harmony between employers and their hired workers, and it was actually inspired by the Germans. In that country, incidentally, trade unions and the labor movement have always been treated with the respect they deserve.

As for social policy, there are some problems, but I feel that it is also quite sensible. Expenditures on education will increase by almost 60 percent. Pensions are rising. We have to update our pension system, however, or our elderly will be indigent anyway. We need a more effective system of social security: 100 million residents of Russia are formally entitled to privileges, and far from all of them are poor. The reforms should give everyone a chance to make a decent living.

[Stroganov] What, in your opinion, is the reason that so many of our citizens want to live simultaneously under market conditions and "under socialism"?

[Nemtsov] It is their belief in miracles. It is such a deeply ingrained belief here. Think about it: Christmas is the main Catholic holiday, but we put more emphasis on the Resurrection of Christ. What is our favorite ad? "This plain potato turned to gold." Unscrupulous individuals of every variety once took advantage of our people's inherent wish to get everything they want for free and without any effort by setting up "financial pyramids." The people believed that they could "just sit on the bank with a fishing pole and reel in the money." They later learned that no one who just sat could reel in any money!

[Stroganov] You once said that you were building the largest democratic party in Russia. Political trends in Europe, however, indicate a "shift to the left." Under these conditions, can the right wing expect mass support?

[Nemtsov] Public affairs are governed by the pendulum effect. People get tired of looking at the same faces, get disillusioned with politics, and need a change. In Russia, however, the Communists never did go away, after all. They have the biggest faction in parliament. They control the government in 20 regions. They exercise even more control on the municipal level. In Russia, therefore, this is the time for a shift to the right. The Communists, to put it bluntly, have "irked" everyone in Russia. They had complete control of the country for more than 70 years and they keep trying to hang on to their power. Russia could have moved ahead more quickly if it had immediately pursued a policy clearly aimed at the market and democracy. People say that the democrats were in power during the Yeltsin years. That is nonsense. Chernomyrdin was the premier for five and a half years. He is a good man, I have a wonderful relationship with him, and I wish him the greatest success in Ukraine, but you have to agree that he is not a democrat. Meanwhile, Gaydar, whom so many people vilify, was only in power for nine months....

[Stroganov] ...But in that time he managed to arouse so much hatred for reform that he helped to strengthen the Communists' position....

[Nemtsov] I have to remind you that the Soviet Union was in a coma. The country was falling apart. The Baltic states and Georgia were gone. An economic catastrophe was brewing. There were appalling shortages and high inflation. Men were turning over buses in Nizhniy Novgorod to protest the shortage of cigarettes. When Gaydar became the prime minister, the Soviet Union had no gold reserves. The country was bankrupt and owed the outside world $100 billion. We still agonize over this debt during budget deliberations. Only shock therapy could bring the country out of its comatose state. The alternative was civil war, with food rationing and elements of military communism. Gaydar's choice may have been painful, but it was a peaceful solution.

[Stroganov] After a decade of "nebulous policy," should you also be supporting the actions to strengthen the vertical chain of command?

[Nemtsov] This policy has its advantages and its drawbacks. The advantage is that it turned Russia into a united state. The plenipotentiary representatives invalidated thousands of illegal and unconstitutional instruments. Goods can be transported throughout the country without any barriers. There is one serious danger, however. Some people put their own spin on the process of strengthening governmental authority and started trying to eliminate elections or to debase them with the excessive use of administrative resources. I think this lies behind the removal of Rutskoy and the Communist Ivanchenko in Rostov and behind the Cherepkov saga in Maritime Kray. All of this restricts government by the people. It is also unfortunate that money has started flowing toward the center. The center is taking money away from the regions, the regions are taking money from the cities, and the cities are taking money from the people. The idea did not have to be taken to absurd extremes. They succeeded in unifying the country, and now they have to start strengthening local government and establishing a financial basis for it.

[Stroganov] Some rightwing politicians, however, have taken a far too radical and destructive stance. Yushenkov, for example, is destroying the SPS [Union of Rightwing Forces] by setting up his own "Liberal Russia" party and, in a recent rant castigating the President, came up with the intriguing suggestion that Yeltsin should return to office because he had not fulfilled his mission in its entirety. What do you think of that insightful recommendation?

[Nemtsov] I recently visited Boris Nikolayevich at home. I only hope his health holds out. I firmly believe that Yeltsin gave his life for democracy in this country. He did make mistakes. Like any other Russian man, he was inclined to make impulsive decisions. There is no question, however, that he is a "historic figure," and we can only hope that his health will improve.

It is impossible to reverse the course of history. The rebellious Yeltsin objectively had to be followed by an even-tempered individual. A revolution cannot go on forever. In the historical context, Putin's arrival on the scene was predestined. Some people like him, and some do not, but the transition to a period of stabilization was a natural process.

It is wrong to overestimate Yushenkov's role in the democratic movement. He is not a member of the SPS. I am pleased, however, by the very fact that some attempts are being made to establish something like a party on the right flank, and he is doing this with Boris Abramovich Berezovskiy. In addition, the highly intelligent Governor Prusak of Novgorod has established the Democratic Party of Russia. This is wonderful! They are creating a competitive environment. The party that keeps its promises, implements its policies most effectively, and manages to build a strong organization will survive.

[Stroganov] Did Yeltsin really promise to make you his successor?

[Nemtsov] He said this publicly several times, but Boris Nikolayevich said so many things. I regard this as just an isolated incident in my life and never give it much thought.

[Stroganov] Are you saying you do not resent what happened?

[Nemtsov] Why would I feel any resentment?! I do not envy Putin. He is young and energetic, but he is limited by his official status, just as anyone in that office would be. For that reason, I feel no envy or resentment. My associates--Gaydar, Chubays, and Irina Khakamada--and I are doing something important. We are establishing a powerful democratic party, a non-marginal party with a definite and explicit platform.

[Stroganov] Voters are more likely to judge political forces by the personalities of their leaders and do not spend much time scrutinizing their platforms.

[Nemtsov] The SPS actually does not have a leader. The SPS ideology is this: We want Russia to be a free and democratic country. We want it to have a strong middle class and the European type of market economy. We want our state to be respected in the world arena. To achieve this, the country must acquire economic strength. Then it will also be able to maintain a professional army. I would not want this ideology to disappear when the leaders are gone.

[Stroganov] Your words about a strong Russia sound just like a statement by a member of a patriotic organization....

[Nemtsov] But we could also be called the "Union of Patriotic Forces." A democratic foundation, general elections, a free press, a rule-of-law state, and a strong judicial system--Russia needs all of those to flourish. My interpretation of a strong state is one in which crimes are punished, people can walk down the street without fear, the army is combat-efficient, professional, and strong, and the official does his job and does not stick his nose where it does not belong.

[Stroganov] While we are on the subject of security and a strong Russia, you once criticized Putin for his brutal actions in Chechnya, but now that the United States and Russia have agreed on the need to fight terrorism, you are supporting him.

[Nemtsov] Putin made the strategically correct choice: We must join the developed countries in this coalition. Russia will benefit from this. I also, however, have to point out an incontrovertible fact:

Terrorism cannot be defeated by military force alone. We killed Dudayev, and Khattab and Basayev took his place. There are so many of these people. Cut off one head, and five more grow in its place. I agree that the terrorists must be eliminated, but it is wrong to go to war against the people. The President has adhered to this stance ever since he issued the 72-hour ultimatum.

[Stroganov] How do you think Russia might be affected by the international operation against the Taliban?

[Nemtsov] The Americans will solve their problems and leave. They are lucky: They live so far away. We, on the other hand, will be stuck with, among other problems, the enduring dilemma of illegal drugs.

Afghanistan is the biggest producer and supplier of heroin, opium poppies, and marijuana to Russia. The Taliban regime has had a lethal effect on us in the full sense of this term because it is making money at the expense of our citizens' lives. The weaker the Taliban gets, the stronger Russia will be. We have to pursue a sensible policy. We must not repeat our Afghan tragedy by sending our soldiers there. We must coordinate our actions with the West and help the Northern Alliance. People have suggested that the West will take advantage of this situation to start controlling the Central Asian states. We have to reach an explicit agreement with the United States with regard to its actions in Central Asia by telling it that this is a traditional zone of Russian interests. This can be done now that we have common goals and a common enemy. There is no uniting force more powerful than a common enemy.

Back to the Top    Next Article