#9
Subject: Ichkeria: Anna Politkovskaya in Vienna against her will
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 01
From: Miriam Lanskoy <mlanskoy@bu.edu>
Vienna Echo of Chechen Story
Ichkeria.org
Editorial
08-10-2001
Our friend and colleague, outstanding Russian journalist Anna
Politkovskaya is now staying in Vienna not of her own will. The
editor-in-chief of Novaya Gazeta, for which Anna Politkovskaya works,
decided to promptly send her to the Austrian capital, first of all,
for security reasons. Anna Politkovskaya is being threatened for her
reporting from Chechnya, which sticks in top authorities' throat, and
such threats are rather weighty. At the same time pressure on the
editorial board from power structures [we would get to know in the
near future which structures in particular] is increasing. Though
Russia has recently got a certain political credit from the United
States for its assistance in fighting international terrorism, Russia
shall not expect its actions in Chechnya and human rights abuses
remain unpunished. The Western world has already admitted it. No
matter which scenario subsequent events might follow, common sense
would prevail, evil loses because it is not rational. Below is the
full text of the interview with Anna Politkovskaya, whom we contacted
in Vienna by phone.
Question: So, Anna, what is going on
around you? Threatening letters
to the editorial board of Novaya Gazeta, you cannot leave your own
house without a bodyguard and, finally, as in the good old days, you
are being escorted to the Sheremetyevo international airport, and now
you are in Vienna. The route is historical. Let's try to approach the
situation and understand what Russia's authorities want from the
journalist covering Chechnya?
Answer: Well, just before my latest trip
to Chechnya in mid-September
my colleagues - Novaya Gazeta staffers - began to receive threats to
persuade me not to go to Chechnya any more, because I run deadly
risks. As usually, our newspaper has "its people" - I mean those who
think like we do - in the General Headquarters, the defense ministry.
In that case it was the defense ministry. After debating for some
time (I also preferred to disregard the information - people beat the
air too often!) I went to Chechnya and soon found myself in a
blockade in Grozny. It happened because of strange events that were
taking place in the city. That was a total blockade, it was not
allowed to leave the city or move within it. September 17 a military
helicopter with the General HQ commission headed by General Anatoly
Pozdnyakov onboard was shot down in the air above Grozny. The
commission was doing an unprecedented for Chechnya and for military job.
Question: Just an hour before the
helicopter was shot down you spoke
to Lt.-Gen. Anatoly Pozdnyakov. What did he tell you besides what you
newspaper published?
Answer: He simply said that the
commission's task was to collect
facts about military crimes, systematize them and report to the
president. There had been nothing similar in Chechnya. That
helicopter - while Grozny was totally blocked - fell almost in the
city center, it crashed. All the commission members died, the
documents destroyed. The helicopter was to deliver them to a plane to
head for Moscow. It was reported. The article was not published yet,
when the editor-in-chief was summoned to the defense ministry to
explain how such an article could appear at all. He explained, and
then the hand-wheel started moving. He was told the article must not
be published. But he decided to put in a deformed version of it. The
article came out. I returned from Chechnya. At that moment it turned
out that people in the defense ministry, who assured it should not be
published, said it was true, but warned about new threats; that they
knew that my articles had exasperated someone. The conversation
looked like the one before my trip. And then a person appears who
says there are threats by a concrete officer. He sent proper letters
to the editorial board, proper notifications to the defense ministry.
That was officer Larin, whom I described as one of military criminals.
He is the person with killed and tortured on his conscience, this is a
proved fact. Then we are warned that I shall stay home until the
ministry of interior and Deputy Minister Vasilyev personally does his
best to catch the newly killer among military. I was supposed to stay
home, never budge from the place. Meanwhile, everything began
slipping. It was clear no one is looking for anyone, it was just a
trick to suspend work. Everything stuck in mud. Then the editorial
board decided I must leave until they could do something for me to
exist and work.
Question: And once again - what did the
newspaper "cut"? You say your
article was deformed, what didn't they publish?
Answer: The details - of great importance
in such material - which
proved that the helicopter with the commission onboard was shot down
by the military. That was the most important point, which entailed
all subsequent troubles. The defense ministry was absolutely not
interested, they openly said to the editor-in-chief: if these details
are published, that would be it...
Question: You, as a journalist, when
writing about such things, are
naturally based on several information sources. Did you have the
sources which proved the fact that Russian military shot down the
helicopter?
Answer: The matter is that it was a very
simple journalistic job. At
that moment I moved around the city as I could. And I can witness as
other people who stayed aside. Those were not common people: members
of Chechen police, Grozenergo's employees, who couldn't get out too.
Russian electrical monopoly Anatoly Chubais' first deputy General
Platonov was also there at that time. They all saw what I did. I am
not a unique person. I am simply a journalist who had to report it.
And they are - people. I would like to add that General Platonov -
Chubais' deputy - is also a deputy FSB director. As of today - the
situation is as described. And he could see and hear everything what
happened, because it was simply impossible not to see. Not a single
person was allowed into the city center after 9 am, when the
helicopter was shot down.
Question: Let's clear up the situation.
You see, General Anatoly
Pozdnyakov had large files to submit to the president. It was a
matter of stopping the war. Now the situation is not unambiguous.
We could say that some Russian political structures are willing to
contact Aslan Maskhadov, others - refuge bluntly. The helicopter shot
down - is a demonstration of fighting within the military establishment?
Answer: I would say within several
military establishments. Because
current commentaries by representatives of the defense ministry are
oriented at the following quotations: "we deny possibility of
negotiations," "it is impossible," "we are doing our
job." In fact,
they are doing their job: "mopping-up operations" became even more
harsh. Let's suppose that representatives of other military
structures present in Chechnya are pursuing a different policy. That
is where the reason for the commission's death is hidden. I am simply
a screw in this story, I happened to be there accidentally - when
there were no other journalists.
Question: And which side do the scales bow?
Answer: It seems the scales bow to
further development of military
events, because this is the most powerful part of the so-called
"United Grouping." Even though FSB is in charge, the military are too
powerful. That unfortunate day, September 17 - when the commissioned
was killed - not a single military, except for representatives of the
defense ministry, was allowed into a blocked circle inside Grozny.
FSB and Justice Ministry workers were staying with us at block-posts,
and it was absolutely ridiculous. No one was allowed into the center,
where the helicopter was to crash. I am not talking about miserable
prosecutors, who are never allowed anywhere. Even representatives of
other military structures, officers, were not allowed there.
Question: Now, when the world is awaiting
the USA and the Alliance to
act against Taliban and against international terrorism as a whole,
could you foresee that beginning of military actions would coincide
with escalation of military tension and hostilities in Chechnya? To
what extent could these events develop parallel? Or perhaps you
exclude such a possibility, believing representatives of the military
establishment still have some intelligence left to understand these
are "far-fetched" things, and they are discrediting themselves in
this respect?
Answer: I think we shall not delude
ourselves regarding the main
military establishment - the defense ministry - as well as Vladimir
Putin. He openly got indulgence to use measures and force he
considers necessary in Chechnya. I mean Tony Blair's recent actions,
some words by Chancellor Shroeder, while Putin stayed in Germany. As
we know, it was noted that Europe's stance on Chechnya must be
reconsidered. Sorry, but this stance is already too soft and does not
correspond to the situation around human rights in Chechnya. If it is
reconsidered, there would be no doubt - Putin has managed to enlist
support. And no matter what he does now, everything would be OK. I
think he has been longing for that for a long time. And he would use
it. A force trade took place, and not for the first time during this
war. What do I mean? For quite a long time Putin has refused to
openly support the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan, but later he
says "yes," Russia would supply arms and, probably, human force. In
return he is given indulgence on Chechnya. I think we - alas! - shall
expect such course of events.
Question: But nevertheless, the United
States claimed its attitude
towards Chechnya is not changing... Naturally, a diplomatic formula
is behind it. But shall we look for some structural changes at the
level of secret services behind such formula? I understand this is
what is being declared. And perhaps influence upon the former Soviet
republics - such as Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. But do you think we
shall expect full-scale hostilities in Chechnya after military
actions begin in Afghanistan?
Answer: I do not know, whether it would
happen the same day, or in a
couple of days - but anyway, the so-called destruction of rebels is
likely to escalate. But it is a matter of methods, of course. What
does destruction of rebels mean? A total punishment cell for the
rest? Total "mopping-up operations?"
Question: I think that the US knows well
Russia is not able to
conduct a "spot" war against separate field commanders, who
discredited themselves, which is likely to cause severe casualties
among civilians. Could you explain why Chechen President Aslan
Maskhadov does not react to numerous calls to disassociate himself
from such field commanders? First of all, I mean Khattab and Basayev.
Answer: I cannot speak for President
Maskhadov, but I can just
analyze his actions. I think he is doing nothing at all. He is just
in his shell, where he, perhaps, is thinking about his nearest future,
and he forgot his people. And that is what really matters. The federal
side forgot it, and the other side forgot it as well. As of today -
the people is ownerless. It lives as it could. It has to take revenge
for killed and tortured relatives and it will. It has to keep silent -
and it will. As a result of such circumstances, in fact, an
inner-Chechen civil war and pressure from federal forces, today no
one knows for whom the Chechen people would vote, if there is an
election. No one can foresee that, and this is a big mistake of everyone.
Question: On the other side it must be
noted that Chechen President
Aslan Maskhadov is too "stuck" in the war. I understand that his task
as the president is to fight for independence. But struggling for
independence does not mean a total annihilation of his own people.
There should be political compromises, diplomatic moves. And he makes
no use of them. And therefore bewildered, I ask myself and you - what
is going on? Didn't such historic lessons make people change right away?
Answer: Maskhadov is driven into a
corner. That is obvious. But I
think that struggle for independence turned for him into something,
beside which he sees and hears nothing. Who would need such
independence, when he is left alone, with Basayev and a bunch of
bodyguards, I do not understand. Anyway, the president's first
concern, as I see it, to fight for happiness of his own people. And
that's it. But there is no happiness by means of destruction. You
know, I also have a president. In the country where I live. And no
matter that I did not vote for him. What's important is that he is
the president of my country. And I want him to make my life happy.
I mean laws, in line with which I must live. But I happened to be in
the situation when no one cares how I would exist. I am separated
from my family. I do not know what will happen to my children. I
know nothing. There is no law. Law does not rule. There is no place
to address to make the law rule.
Question: Nevertheless, have you tried to
define a recipe for your
own fate? You don't have any advisors to give proper answers. I think
it is hard to act in such situation. However, how do you see your
future? Because this is a historic route. Moscow-Vienna. We have
already gone through it. Set-backs again?
Answer: I might say I have no thoughts
regarding my future. And this
is the worst of it. The only thing I want is that everything changes
and I am back in Moscow. I cannot imagine that I could stay here for
a long time. Or any other place. Therefore, I must do everything I
could to return to Moscow. I do not know when it would happen, and
this is the worst of all.
Question: You said several days ago a
young woman was killed in your
apartment block in Moscow. Was it an accident or it had any relation
to you?
Answer: I hope it was an accident. My
family believes it was the
first reaction, and that it relates to the situation around me. If so,
- spare God! - as a result of an absolute lawlessness and
defenselessness of people living in my country, I live at the expense
of another person. Over the last year there have been many such
situations. People, who were my witnesses and informers in Chechnya,
died for this very reason when I left their houses. If this is true
this time too, it is very hard to live at the expense of others?
Don't you agree...?
Question: Are going to write about
Chechnya while staying here in the
West and using your contacts? Or your reporting and articles - are
connected first of all with your staying in Russia and Chechnya?
Answer: The matter is that I managed
almost nothing while in Moscow.
I have many materials which I collected, and I am going to send it to
the editorial board weekly. That was our deal with the
editor-in-chief. The only thing that bewilders me is that the
editor-in-chief has not got in contact with me for three days already.
Whether he is under pressure again and cannot say he does not need
my articles. I am asking him: "Answer, please, the next article to
come out is ready. Explain, what shall I do? How to send it?" There
has been no answer. It is possible he is facing some conditions to
save the newspaper, and so far I could only guess in this respect.
Well, the most difficult time for my newspaper and me has come since
the beginning of the second Chechen war.